Curse

Tellani Artini · Jul 28, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51

The only thing I've ever seen a warrior using frenzy do is die, honestly. All you have to do is call it and they either die or stop using frenzy. Oh dear, someone's attacking the warrior first, that's always a horrible idea and it never happens. Right?

Vindexus · Jul 28, 2005, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

The way damage reduction works, doubling a 10 damage hit to 20 damage will actually lead to a 300% increase in damage taken. Normally that 10 damage would be reduced to 5(-2 knights, -3 sup. absorbtion). The 20 damage hit is still reduced by 5 and you take 15 damage. In an extreme case where, for example you are only taking 1 damage(6 before reduction). Using Frenzy leads to a 700% increase in the damage you take. Pointing out the intricacies of damage reduction actually weakens the case for frenzy.

2 x 0 = 0. No one attacks warriors.

Tellani Artini · Jul 28, 2005, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

2 x 0 = 0. No one attacks warriors.

I must be some kind of freak for ganking frenzy warriors all the time.

Chaynsaw · Jul 28, 2005, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Yeah, a corpse NEVER explodes under a warrior while he's frenzied...

Soiled Egg Roll · Jul 28, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zelc

I have, as well. In fact, I've noticed some good guilds like Fear Me running with Hammer R/Ws. I assume it's for a reason, although I'm not quite sure what reason (maybe Tiger's Fury + Expertise?).

It's pretty much so he can use Tiger's fury, "For Great Justice!" and then the hammer knockdown skill and the like. It allows for knockdown skills more frequently for 15 seconds, without having to worry about energy. Though I believe the real reason is someone in our guild's obsession with R/W that has dated back to the beta weekends.

Vindexus · Jul 28, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaynsaw

Yeah, a corpse NEVER explodes under a warrior while he's frenzied...

Don't use Frenzy on the altar. Hit sprint when the putrid chain starts.

The point is, taking double damage from Frenzy is worth it for the +50% damage output because you rarely take any damage, and it allows you to free up your secondary for better stuff.

sabox · Jul 28, 2005, 01:28 AM // 01:28

R/W builds can kick ass, and can own on war easy. But it all depends on the builds and the players.

I have seen many Kick ass R/W builds and a lot of dumb ones too.

There are very few warrior build which actually do good, outside of the 4on4 arenas. The Hammer War being the main exception, as a good hammer war can make anyones day sux.

Tuna · Jul 28, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

I must be some kind of freak for ganking frenzy warriors all the time.

Yes you are

I've played lots and lots of warriors, mainly in GvG, and have never or very seldom (before team is mostly dead) been focused on. If someone does decide to take advantage of frenzy being on its not hard on the monks to negate some dmg for <8 seconds. You just have to be carefull in situations like that and be aware enough to not use frenzy if you get into a sticky situation. However, for generall fighitng, 24/7 frenzy is perfectly fine.

ICURADik · Jul 28, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

2 x 0 = 0. No one attacks warriors.

I guess there are two levels of noobs. Ones that just randomly attack whatever, and ones that never attack a warrior under any circumstance. You are the second.

Vindexus · Jul 28, 2005, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

I guess there are two levels of noobs. Ones that just randomly attack whatever, and ones that never attack a warrior under any circumstance. You are the second.

Calling me a noob is uncalled for. Sure, you attack warriors, but only when the over extend, or run the flag, or just piss you off. But if you look at the enemy team and you see three monks, a mesmer, an ele, and some warriors, who are you going to target? Probably not the warrior, am I right?

But say you are playing as a warrior, don't use Frenzy when you are likely to be target. If you're running the flag, don't use Frenzy. If you're the only one alive, don't use Frenzy.

kuramaroze · Jul 28, 2005, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Although you'd have to be stupid to have 16 in a weapon attribute, I do say that W/X > R/W. Not much to argue, its simply better.

ElderAtronach · Jul 28, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Lol yeah I'd love to see you pull a split second stance-switch out of your ass when a putrid chain starts. By the time the first one hits you'll be at half health even if you were full before. And I guarantee there will be others following every 1.25 seconds, or less if there's more than 1 necro on the other team. You don't even need to be on an altar when putrid hits, its range is pretty wide and chances are there will be a body near you somewhere.

Frenzy is a good way to die to AoE fire/earth spells too, and oh but I guess *nobody* uses those...

@ Neo-LD: By specialized, I mean they fit a very specific role on a team-build. I'll give you one example out of many possible ones I can think of: R/W axe wielder spamming conditions paired with Mo/W(s) to keep themselves alive (and thus the rest of the team alive). Figure the rest out on your own.

And others have already stated in this thread that the R/W hammer with TF and FGJ spamming knockdowns and irresistible blow is already on par, if not better at keeping someone knock-locked than a warrior primary.

Vindexus · Jul 28, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

Lol yeah I'd love to see you pull a split second stance-switch out of your ass when a putrid chain starts. By the time the first one hits you'll be at half health even if you were full before. And I guarantee there will be others following every 1.25 seconds, or less if there's more than 1 necro on the other team. You don't even need to be on an altar when putrid hits, its range is pretty wide and chances are there will be a body near you somewhere.

"Ow that putrid hurt, good thing I'm not stupid enough to use Frenzy on the altar."

or

"Ow that putrid hurt" *Hits 7*

I would risk double damage and be able to take aftershock or conjures or Judge's Insight.

ICURADik · Jul 28, 2005, 03:01 AM // 03:01

W/Mo's don't realisticly use JI....

Neo-LD · Jul 28, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Frenzy's double damage doesnt even make wars as squishy as monks. WHy attack them? As for the idea not Comparing R/W to a W/X, just cus the R/W cant tap into a secondary , I must say that is faulty logic. One of the Weakness of the R/W is that it has already used up its secondary. As for not comparing them cus they do different things, thats also rubbish. The both go and attack stuff with their sword. Whats so different. If one class is so incredably superior in this roll than the other (as is the case here) thenI fail to see the logic in ever choosing a known inferior build.

carnivore · Jul 28, 2005, 03:10 AM // 03:10

I'd like to end this argument once and for all. lets do that, by not argueing about it. clearly people who are r/w's have a different mindset to everyone else. i do it because i can, because it looks cool, and it befits my style. if you dont like it, then get on with life, whats the point of tryin to convince us. we clearly have showed we like this build, therefore we use it. the same reason why anyone should use any build.

Tuna · Jul 28, 2005, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Its already been established that one should not use frenzy on an alter.

Syno Nym · Jul 28, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Honestly I did not read the whole thread, I just skipped page 2... So I don't know if somebody already mentionned it but :

Warriors can use superior absorption runes, and heavy armor. As I played my R/W in the GvG, it wasn't rare for me to be the ennemy's target, and to die quickly. A hammer warrior can hit me for almost 100-110dmg, when I only hit him for 50. So if the ennemies decide to spike your ranger with heavy physical attack, good luck.

On the contrary, a warrior can't be spiked with physical attacks, and will resist pretty well to elemental damage (unless they have armor penetration).

Even if we finaly decided to play R/W (constant attack speed increase, never out of mana, etc...), after trying both W/R and R/W, we keep in mind that our first line is quite weak.

PS : about the frenzy thing... If I'm a monk and I see a warrior other than W/R hitting me faster than light, I'll scream on TS that he's using frenzy, and he'll be dead in a second. The trick would be to make a W/R with frenzy...

kuramaroze · Jul 28, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Warriors *dont* use sup runes anyways. Weapon atts barely add any bonus after 12, and the -75 health isnt worth it. Armor isn't the argument either, since R/W have MUCH better protection against magic, and are decent against melee. The problem is that R/W's don't get to take advantage of strength and their linked atts, nor their secondary classes. Sure a R/W using TF and FGJ can keep someone on the floor for a while, but a W/E using frenzy and aftershock can take down most casters without protective spirit on them in one chain of knockdowns and damage skills. Why waste more time keeping them down?

I really see no major advantages to being R/W..

Rey Lentless · Jul 28, 2005, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiiron

I just want to note that I have no opinion whatsoever on whether a W/* and a R/W can be effective, but that this seems kind of contradictory. If the extra defense of a ranger doesn't mean anything because they don't get targeted, does the extra AR from a shield contribute significantly? I suppose a R/W could just use a hammer instead, or even a focus.

The point is.. if you're using the r/w for the added defense, then you aren't going to skip out on the shield.. that would be defeating the purpose wouldn't it?

And using a r/w for more defense seems to be the main reason to use it.

I don't think the hammer's a good option for a r/w. Ele secondary just has much better synergy with that, and that's not an option for a r/w.

I do think the r/w has a place, but it would have to be with a pet.